Relationship Does My Wife Have Ptsd? She Has Been Raped Several Times.

[Neverthesame]

May I ask how valuable it would be for her to share with someone close? She has not told her mother anything of what has happened in her past.

The only one who can know this is your wife.

I'm not suggesting I push this idea of her opening up to a friend

That's probably a good idea. This would likely end badly. Seeking professional help for her is one thing, meddling with her interpersonal relationships with friends and family. Will probably just cause alot of resentment towards you.

 

[Friday]

May I ask how valuable it would be for her to share with someone close? She has not told her mother anything of what has happened in her past. Her mum can be very emotionally abusive, and since reading about secondary effects of PTSD and mother daughter relationships there are things that she went through that could have stayed this whole thing rolling. I'm referring to life threatening things that happened in childhood. I'm not suggesting I push this idea of her opening up to a friend, or at least in the short term. I'd like to know from people that have experience if this would be a good or bad thing.

With PTSD dealing with trauma in any form (therapy, friends, etc.) tends to make symptoms far worse for a time. Which is why trauma therapists don't just jump into trauma, but spend time stabilizing first.

Whether or not your wife has PTSD (or Borderline, or Post Natal Depression / Psychosis, or Bipolar Disorder, or GAD, or major depression, or cyclothymia, or, or, or, or any of the many many possibilities in what could be causing her behavior), your wife is very unstable.

It's not normal to be threatening suicide twice a week. It's not normal to be talking about smashing your newborn into a wall. It's not normal to be having violent emotional outbursts. It's not normal to be using emotional blackmail against your spouse, nor any of the other outbursts she's directed at you. It's not normal to be hating an 8yo. You know this.

And, no. It's not painting her in a bad light to be telling the truth. No matter how wonderful & practically perfect in every way she is when she's not doing these things? These things, and others, are still happening.

Regardless of why they're happening? All of you need & deserve help.

As a parent, first priority is to your kids. Protecting them. Keeping them safe. Next priority is to yourself. Last priority to your spouse. Which -especially in an abusive relationship, and walking on eggshells, and trying to keep them happy, and trying to always be thinking/thinking/thinking how are they going to respond? Will they be angry? Embarassed? Will they hurt themselves? Will they throw a fit? Will they lash out? Will they/ Will they/ Will they... How can I manage / how can I prevent / how can I ...Ugh. Fear!/shame!/betrayal! how could I?!?! Self blame! This is my fault! I should never have- might feel wrong. It's not. Her emotional reactions are not your fault. Kids. You. Her. In that order.

 

[Suzetig]

Ah I didn't realise you were in the U.K. - your wife should have some contact with a health visitor as part of her post natal care, that's a good place for her to start re possible post natal depression. The health visitor can do a basic assessment and put supports in place for your wife fairly easily.

She can also look at supported nursery care for your 2 year old to give your wife some breathing space.
They can also sometimes access programmes like Sure Start, toddler groups or PPP which is a parenting class/programme but all are designed to increase support and decrease stress levels. I'd start there and see if that helps at all.

It may also be worth talking to your GP, some offer limited access to counselling and also at rape crisis organisations for your wife who often offer free/medium term counselling to victims of rape.

Help can be hard to find but it is out there.

 

[Abstract]

The others said it very well.

And I too didn't realise you were in the UK. You are sadly unlikely to get her into an in clinic program here because of resources. If it was me and you can afford it I would try to take this directly to a psychiatrist. Either through your normal gp if you can get them to refer or because of the importance of the situation and the time importance - directly to a psychiatrist if you can. Preferably someone who specialises in trauma; It might be that you can have an appointment with the person first if private and discuss what you are seeing. Don't think of this as betrayal. These are symptoms not judgments and the pdoc needs the information to be able to help her properly. And therefore help you and your children too.

Keep in mind that it is never truly helpful to someone to allow them to behave in a way that is out of control. She is in crisis and needs help and you are too.

I thought it might help explaining a bit about the difference between over helping and setting boundaries. Setting boundaries is about you. And about your children. Its saying this is what needs to happen to protect you and them. It isn't about making finer point decisions for her about what is good for her such as speaking about trauma to her friends etc. Does that make sense? You have a right to set down expectations for her to get help and you have a duty to your children to evaluate what is best to do if she refuses to do that.

We care what happens to her and you love her and if she finds her way here I hope she would be able to see that. I think I would probably say to keep the stress cup for later and rather see if you can get her diagnosed first. If she has post natal depression then getting meds and balancing out the chemical aspect of this first may help her engage differently with the rest.

Approaching this from a perspective that you love her, she is crisis and you will not allow things to progress the way they are is probably the best bet,

It might be worthwhile reading up a bit on complex trauma on here.

 

[Gs172003]

Suzetig,

I have a counselling session on Thursday, she has said she will come along to it. I have been...

She needs to be inpatient imho before she hurts herself or somebody else. What you are saying is beyond PTSD in my uneducated opinion. And she needs ALOT of help.

 

[Lost001]

Neverthesame.

I think you are right. All I can do is be aware of it that she has no other outlet.

Thanks for the time you took to help.

Matt

 

[Justmehere]

I see no threatening her own life right now in any real sense, only verbally from time to time (twice per week?).

The next time she verbally threatens suicide, even suggests it casually, take her at her word. Even if she is flippant or whatever, treat it as if she means it. She just might mean it for all we know, and even if she doesn't, only someone who is really suffering in one way or another would do this.

I can verify from very similar experiences with someone much like her in my own life, that the risk of her ending her own life is very real, even if she says it in a way that seems fake. I won't post the details, because it might scare you, and I think you are stressed out enough as it is. People who are suicidal sometimes get really calm before they commit the act, and people who threaten to do it a lot, too many of them actually do end their lives.

If she so much as suggests she is even thinking of suicide, then you should try to breathe, listen, and stay as steady and as calm with her as you can be, and call a crisis line. Don't be in her face about it or anything. Tell them exactly what she said, and let them handle figuring out how to respond, if it was real or not, etc. Do it every single time. They have the training and objectivity the situation needs.

Your only responsibility to is to contact them and to take good care of you and the kids. Even if you had the professional skills and training, you can't be her crisis therapist, because you are her husband and too close to her.

Even if it's not a real statement to end her own life, is a clear cry for help. Loud and clear. So let the professionals respond and step in to help. She will either stop the behavior, or she will continue -- but at least she will finally have professionals evaluating her more and getting her much more intensive support.

 

[Justmehere]

So I have a huge amount of questions, not least of which, how can I cope with all of this?! I'm out of my depth. I've felt like an emotional caretaker, sacrificing my own mental wellbeing.

For a number of reasons, I'm worried you are experiencing some possible traumatization yourself. Seeing a loved one threaten to imminently kill themselves is trauma. It just is. That's not a statement about her being good or bad. Therapists have to do extra work on their own to make sure they don't get secondary traumatization from clients - and they have professional distance and that makes it very different. For a husband? It makes sense why you are so hypervigalent.

Ever flown on a plane? They always say in the safety drill that someone has to put on their own oxygen mask first before they help someone else... This is because if you don't take care of you, you can't help anyone else.

In my opinion, which you can take or leave, find counseling support for you as priority number one. Then couples counseling. She will get her own counseling on her own when she is motivated enough to do so. (And she does need therapy, PTSD, BPD, or not.) Really, her work is very critical, but if she's not willing, or flaky, you gotta focus on support for you.

Look into relaxation techniques and build up a new network of support. There is enough chaos happening - do you have crisis lines handy? If she acts out, call them even for advice and support. The more support you can get close in time to all this chaos and danger, the more it will help reduce the long term negative impact on you and the kids.

Boundaries and helping/being compassionate to her struggle are NOT two separate things. They are one and the same. People with these kinds of symptoms benefit from boundaries that are gently but clearly communicated. Keep in mind that boundaries are not about controlling or changing another person, but about ourselves. What we will and will not let into our lives.

Look into DBTselfhelp.com and look up DBT workbooks online. The way they are written work pretty well for people with BPD, and frankly, most of the skills in there would help most people cope with stress and build better relationships. They can be helpful for supporters too.

I have warned her on several occasions that I want a wife foremost, not just a friend. Now I believe that what I thought were BPD traits were just symptomatic of PTSD.

There is a condition that's not a formal official diagnosis, but still and often given diagnosis, called complex PTSD. It usually means PTSD plus BPD or dissociative symptoms. No one here can diagnose, as there could be so many things going on here, but that could be one of the things in the mix.

One thing to be clear on: no diagnosis makes it ok to be verbally or physically abusive. Period. Don't use any diagnosis as an excuse for her to be abusive - it's not compassionate to her, and it just makes things worse.

As you hold more clear boundaries, she may act out more. It's not because you are failing, but because you are changing. This is part of why you need to stay connected to professional support.

I don't blame her at all for the things that have happened, but things she says indicate to me that she does blame herself. According to her, these were her mistakes, she has lived with the consequences, lived with the memories, she has dealt with things (paraphrased from texts last night).

Misplaced guilt and shame over traumatic events is quite common. This may also be her way of trying to cope, to minimizing the weight of the past and the seriousness of the current chaos and dysfunction. It's all a way to try to cope with the overwhelming pain she is in.

I love her. She loves me. We have two girls together. I have a son by my previous marriage. I'm breaking under the strain. I went to see a counsellor last week, and she has agreed to come to the next session, which is hugely positive. She has refused counselling in the past, and even refused to allow me to go, saying "if you go you may as well end things". I don't know if it is a good idea to bring everything out in the open. I will focus on myself and what I see and experience and not let her off of the hook. I have warned her that I will talk about whatever I like, and will not stay off of these traumatic events as I believe they are affecting me. She has not backed out of coming.

Back off on pushing her to talk about her trauma. If she's not ready, she's not ready. Yes, it's important, but it's not resolved by pushing someone into talking about it if they are not ready. You could mention you have compassion because of her past trauma, but I wouldn't even get more specific than "past trauma" in front of her. Let her tell the therapist her pain when she's ready to get help for the past.

She need scoping skills boot camp more than anything else to stabilize her symptoms. Possibly meds too, but only a doc and therapist can figure that out.

Back off on spending time interpreting her behaviors as resulting from the trauma when you talk to her. She's clearly trying to push back on that by saying she has dealt with it. That denial that she has is a way to manage pain.

Focus on you. Focus on your pain. Your fears. Focus on the behaviors that can not continue. Focus on what YOU NEED for this marriage to continue, for you to feel safe and secure again, for your kids sake. Focus on the changes you need in how she copes with things. A serious reduction (and eventual end) to the screaming, throwing things, self injury, suicidal threats, chaos around the kids. Be very clear and concrete on those things. The more you make it about you and your needs, the less defense you will get from her. She can't argue your pain isn't real.... well, she may try. But if you focus on the trauma being the cause when she's not ready to face it, then she will just get focused on "I've dealt with it!" So focus on the here and not and what's not working FOR YOU. Let her choose to bring up the trauma. It's clearly on her mind and just under the surface.

The more you let the therapist handle the past and clinical interpretations with her, the better.
The more you focus on you and your pain in the session, the more you will help her, your kids, and most of all, the more you will help the therapist help you.

Have I gone mad? Is it my attitude and expectations that need adjustment?

As far as I can tell based on your posts, you are not going mad. If an attitude or expectation adjustment would resolve everything that is happening, I'm sure that would have worked by now. it hasn't. This is a situation that needs professional intervention.

If she says she has dealt with events from her past and is content with herself, should I also be content with that?

I'm not surprised at all that she says she is content with herself. What she is doing now, is "working" for her, and is easier than facing the fears of facing YOUR pain, her pain, and the real impact of her mental health. When her out of control behavior stops working for her, i.e. the consequences for her behavior are higher than her fear of getting help and facing her own stuff, then she will get help.

My wife may seriously harm herself and the children would be at risk. Now that sexual assault is the issue, I cannot turn to family and friends for the support I have been given in the past.

It's almost certain your young children are already being impacted by having their mother, one of their basic caregivers, be so out of control, and the hypervigilance and traumatization you might be showing.

I would suggest reaching out to any UK domestic violence or BPD support groups. If you have friends who are outside of the family, who can even just be there for you to talk about other issues other than the sexual assault, stay connected to them. Don't isolate yourself into this crazymaking world.

You are dealing with a lot, and you are doing a lot of things right. Kudos to you for the good steps you have already taken. I hope you keep reaching out.

 

[Lost001]

Justmehere,

thank you very much for your extensive reply, you must have been typing for ages to cover all of that. You ave picked up on a huge amount of points and I will read over your post until it has sunk in. On the point about bringing up her past trauma with the counsellor, I did not mean to sound like I would be pushy, although your warning has been taken on board. The point I have tried to make is that I will discuss those things. In joint counselling I will follow the lead of the therapist and her, in my own sessions I will bring up what is relevant to me, and I think it is fair to her to let her know that I won't be holding anything back (in my sessions).

In respect of the solo and joint counselling, I am flying in the face of a lot of advice. Lord knows I need the help myself, but just getting her in front of a counsellor, with me there and under her own steam is not something I can let pass by. She can be so (unconsciously) evasive and find multitude excuses not to do or have done something that I am going to seize this and put my needs for counselling off. I will talk with the person we will see tomorrow about how best to structure the way ahead for us.

Just out of interest, there seems to be the need for 3 counsellors in all, either at different times or at the same time. Is the idea that they should know one another and be aware of the situation, or should they be completely independent?

I want to make another reply to you now, not part of this message...

matt

 

[Fadeaway]

The therapists should be completely independent. It was explained to me that each person should feel as they have someone in their corner. Each personal therapist it's going to be focused on the individual needs. A marriage counselor is going to be focused on the marriage as a whole. An individual therapy a person does not need to hold back. In marriage counseling for the sake of the relationship sometimes a person will feel they have to hold back.

3 therapist are not necessary in every situation however, in yours I feel it is vital.

 

[Lost001]

Justmehere,

I came back from by business trip on Saturday, feeling a lot of anxiety about what would happen but doing my best to keep myself within a good frame. I was certain that we would have some overflowing of stress sooner or later, but I was not prepared for what happened almost immediately.

My wife picked me up from the airport, with our two girls and we drove to see some friends instead of going directly home. I asked if she'd eaten yet that day and she had not (this is a common thing to happen I have now realised). On the way I suggested she stop at a small store where our friends live to pick something up for her to eat. At that moment we were passing a much better store (Waitrose), which is where she wanted to get food from. She waited until we had gone passed, then said she had wanted to go there, and as I had told her to go to the other store, she now didn't want anything. Also I would have to take responsibility for what I had said. Still calm but alarm bells going off in my mind I said just quickly turn here, you can go back and get yourself what you want (we were still on the same road, maybe 50 metres away at some traffic lights). She said she would not do that as I had told her what to, that she didn't want food from there and I was responsible for it. I drew a line and remained calm, my voice and demeanor were calm but I was very quickly becoming angry. I didn't understand the need to blame me for something so trivial or why she would not get the food she wanted from either place. My precise words had been, "go to X and get some food there", her issue with me was that I had not said "how about we go to X and get some food there". I had spoken as calmly and softly in the first instance as anyone could be expected to, also to turn back and go where she had wanted to go would have taken seconds. The line I drew was that if she chose not to eat now, that was her choice, I was not responsible for that.

The next bit I say without predjudice. She carried on trying to get me to accept her truth, that I had somehow instructed her to do something she did not want to do and that was now the reason she was going without. Her anger rose and I reached my breaking point. I think because I had been expecting an issue to come up I snapped and a small plastic toy I was holding in my hand that had come out of a happy meal disintegrated. It was like that. Like I was observing it. I was still calm in my words but my outlet was to destroy the toy. I asked to be let out of the car, but she would not let me out. I needed space to cool off. As usual she saw this as me wanting to leave her and she actually sped up a little. She then broke down while driving at speed. She started by hitting the wheel, and shouting furiously, swearing about herself, saying horrible things. She then began striking herself in the head. I tried to calm her. I had not spoken to her once in a raised voice or in anger, only to assert myself that I was not responsible for her choices. I was now calmly asking her to calm down and let me take over the driving. I cannot believe that I am writing these words. She then gripped the wheel very hard and steered across the road toward an oncoming car. It was not close, it was done with intention I think. I leaned across and tried to pull the wheel back, but being careful not to fight the wheel with force. I got the sense that she relented at that moment and steered back over, it was not my intervention that prevented a catastrophe. I need to write this down. I need to remind myself what has happened. It was a light blue BMW coming toward us, I think for a moment they would have been worried, but it was not close and we were back on our side of the road well before they were very close. Even so, I am massively concerned. My expression of frustration made a volatile situation worse than I could have imagined or been prepared for. Our 2 year old was in the back very aware of what was happening. She was saying over, "mummy stop". I was pleading with my wife to calm down as our daughter was upset, stop shouting, stop swearing.

As with the situation with the knives a couple of years ago now, it left me feeling hollow. A situation where you don't know what the outcome of the next ten seconds or less is going to be, and you are not in control of it. This time our whole family was at risk, not to mention the people in the cars around us. She said she was sorry, she knows it is not right, she wants to do something about it. In the moment she cannot cope at all. Innocuous things where normally I think I would be well within my rights to say you're crossing the line and not treating me right turn in to massive deals.

A couple more things. As I had been away I had spent a lot of time reading online on myPTSD and other resources. The PTSD cup has stuck with me. The rest of the day was weird but it was calm. The next day and every day since except today has been incredibly different. I have kept in mind the PTSD cup and the things that I can do to make things better for her. Things that I am aware of that will add to her stress I try to head off. I have been scratching my head over and over at why when we have nice times in bed together, relaxed, calm, positive, but by the time we get up and are downstairs together she is already triggered, stomping around, shouting, snapping. I have wondered if it is what she is doing, time of day, something I do, and not had a clue? Using the cup analogy, I now have a different perspective. It is sort of time of day related, by the time she is downstairs and active, her cup is already brimming and overflowing because her capacity is so low, her mind is full of 1000 things and they are all of equally urgent importance, she's already overwhelmed. At least this is my thoughts on it at present. It's given me a new perspective and a new approach and way for me to be more confident that I can manage things a little more around her (believe me I am not a pleaser and I don't pussyfoot), and delay or reduce the triggering. Today was worse again, the reason being she is very tired with two little girls causing problems in the night. Not acceptable but not explainable, and because I have been more confident and less confused, it's coming across as such and she's eventually apologised out of the blue.

The other thing is that she went back to see our friends and she seems to have confided a bit in the wife of the couple. This said, all she said was what I had done to upset her and that she had hit the steering wheel. I asked if she had spoken about hitting her head and she said that she had not done it!!!! I think she only recalled it a few moments later when I was firm with her that it had happened! I didn't ask about steering the car across the road, I'd heard all I needed to.

Tomorrow will likely be a difficult day as we are very busy and it will be a challenge to keep things on an even keel. We will be seeing the counsellor in the afternoon. I have asked her if she's been thinking about it and the only thing so far that she has said is that she will bring up the incident on Saturday because she wants him to know what I did and for me to see that she was right. I suppose for couples counselling that is a good time to mediate our differences, I am happy to do that, but my goal for tomorrow is to stop her cup filling so quickly again if I can and work out with the counsellor how best we go forward.

Sorry it is such a long message again. Those following this thread may see me in a different light after what I did. That's ok. I need help, that is for sure.

Matt

 

[Justmehere]

I don't see you at all differently in light of what you wrote. I doubt that anyone here judges you like you might judge yourself. You deserve kindness, not judgement.

You got frustrated and destroyed a toy - I don't condone your actions.... but I totally understand, and NOTHING you do makes her dangerous escalating and violent behavior ok. NO DIAGNOSIS makes her escalating and violent behavior ok. You destroyed an inanimate object and she IMPULSIVELY responded by threatening murder of you and others by driving into traffic.

Frankly, I think your hypervigilance and struggle to stay regulated when frustrated with her is just one of several signs you yourself may have symptoms of being traumatized.

Please start treating her like the adult she is, one who is FULLY responsible for her actions, and go focus on getting help in navigating this. Don't try to make her less stressed so she will not being abusive. That's just fueling this cycle... It's well meaning, but it won't help her. You can not control her into not being abusive and life threatening. You can't.

This is not a safe situation. Your getting help for you and moving heaven and earth to keep those kids safe is THE ONLY THING you have any control over.

All your well meaning attempts to try to care for her needs, change her, get her help... look at where it is leading... more chaos and danger. None of it's your fault but this is WAY beyond you and way beyond a couples counseling therapist.

It's a great idea to try to keep her cup from filling, but NO SUPPORTER can do that. You can only manage your own cup. That's it. (And we all have cups, with and without PTSD.) No supporter can empty my own cup. I have to do that. If a supporter even tries, it creates co-dependency. Sure, do what you can to have a light day for her, but holy cow man, she nearly caused the death of your family and you are focused on making her less stressed?

Frankly, she needs to face consequences for her behavior before any therapy will help. Look - she acts out, and what do you do? You focus on making life easier for her. It's a survival skill on your part and I don't blame you or judge you. I get it. I've done the same.

But look at the results... In response to your trying to take care of her needs, and doing more so the more she escalates, she responds by just lashing out towards you MORE. Not less. And then you try to take care of her needs more. And around and around the cycle goes...

I know you are perhaps a bit shocked and surprised by her behavior, but I'm not so surprised. She will probably escalate more. Impulsively and suddenly. As someone starts to make changes in how they handle a destructive relationship, things usually get worse at first. I'm adamant about you getting help because I expect it to get worse and it's already a chronically life threatening situation. She's not facing the true pain of her behaviors, any consequences for them, despite admitting full fault at the time. She is changing the story. She is not showing signs of committing herself to change, and as you start to change more and more, she will escalate. More.

Look at what she is doing. She sees counseling as a way to try to manipulate the therapist into agreement with her that her actions are either non-existent or your fault. That's called gas lighting. It's not a symptom of PTSD. If the therapist is able to see through this, she may become more alarmed about feared abandonment and escalate more. It is very good that a trained professional is getting involved.

Please find a way to connect to this or another therapist one on one for advice. Call a domestic violence hotline, someone who is a trained professional that you can talk with freely and openly about what happened and get professional advice on how to keep you and your kids safe. It is unwise to have that conversation in front of your wife. It's ok and possibly good to explain what happened with your wife there in front of the therapist, but the advice will be different and more complete if your wife is not there as well.

Please do not minimize the fact that she has now escalated into kidnapping (not letting you out of the car), child endangerment, behavior in the US that would be considered reckless driving and felony menacing - using the car as a weapon to endanger and threaten. If you somehow had what she did on videotape, she could go to jail for a very long time in the US on what she has done most recently. That's how very serious the situation is. I am trying to make this as clear as possible because sometimes (almost all the time) when people are in situations like this, what is abnormal can begin to seem normal. It's a survival skill. I've normalized and minimized very real dangers and thought I could just find a way to fix the other person and then everything would be good enough to tolerate again...

This is very dangerous and unhealthy situation. Your life and that of your children is in danger of severe harm.

You can't control her and the less you try to take care of her, even her eating habits, the better. Right now, and for the foreseeable future, the more you can back off and let her feel the pain of even hunger, the better. By trying to anticipate her needs and help her get them met, you are (understandably) enabling her to stay stuck and blame you for all her needs not being met the way she wants because you keep trying to meet them and have things centered around her and her needs. Let go of trying to focus so much on her therapy. You could get her in front of a therapist every day of the week. If she's not ready and committed to change, it will not do any good. Your life and that of your young children are in severe danger. You need to protect them and you first and foremost.

You keep talking about her PTSD... while you continue to be actively traumatized. I am focused on the impact of all of this on YOU and your young children. This is trauma. Children who are around adults who can't manage their own behavior and constant endanger their own lives, even without endangering the lives of the child, are often affected very deeply, especially when it occurs at a very young age. Your kids are at serious risk for serious problems and symptoms later on.

You have been the victim of a dangerous attempt to harm you. Like many who have been traumatized, you fear we would judge you. Blame you. When you were the victim of an attempt on your life and that of your young children... Nothing you have done makes you at fault for what she did, but the fact you fear we would judge you in that way is another sign you have been traumatized.

You need all the support you can find for you and them. This is not because you are broken, not because you are doing things wrong. It is because there is clear danger that you alone can not fix. You can't. I wish you could. Yes of course it would be wonderful to get her in front of a counselor, but she is an adult who is endangering lives, almost killed her husband and child....

Please start treating her like the adult she is, one who is FULLY responsible for her actions, and go focus on getting help in navigating this.

I have no good advice how to handle the therapy session tomorrow, other than to try to be honest and careful -- and please find other supports that are there for just you or a private time to talk to the therapist one on one in a hurry about how to keep your kids safe. Like TODAY.

I'm so sorry you are going through this. :hug: