I could use some insights

[grit]

I am feeling so depleted and so empty but yet so heavy. I am not versed in what I am about to say but my gut feeling is pulling me there. I really would like anyone to comment what is this and if I am lacking serious insight to see. I will ramble for a while.
At my work, I am finding myself, every time there is a meeting, I am offering solutions that no one asks for it. Some are even above my pay-grade and though maybe good (who knows or cares) I feel dead after like I crossed serious boundaries. In all seriousness, I feel I do same thing here on this site too - offering advice and solutions to the emptiness of the internet. Exhausting and I do feel good but I can feel it is automatic and reaction of something from my past.
Recently my husband's mother is in the hospital. I care about her a lot but my husband for some reason, is not fully feeling the concern. I find myself almost depressed about her sickness and the fact my husband is not visiting her. I feel as if I am feeling her pain and my husband's pain at once.
I am suspecting maybe I am co-dependent person who over cares, over-solves, over-thinks, and even a person (hithere) noted one time maybe the therapist was wrong (and thinking about her own daughter one time) and my first reaction was nah! I cannot burden the therapist to confront her about her daughter. I rather protect the therapist than finding out if indeed, her mind was not with me during that time. I am not sure what I am saying. I am just feeling, I do a lot of good things and feel and think a lot of good things about others at my own expense and wondering if this is co-dependency thing or am I just too depressed today? I operate often being the big person but am I really? I do not think so at least for sure not all the time. My niceness is piercing at me and I feel I am conditioned now not acting spontaneously. I am carrying the whole world on my shoulders and afraid if I drop who will pick up? I remember telling my sister who felt this way about her ex during divorce...you are not god and cannot solve others but now here I am feeling like I have to take the burn for everybody!wtf.
how does one ever get out of this bind?

 

[Invisible Fire]

I hear what you are saying. I am not good at responses but empathy can be exhausting. I find self care and walks in nature help me refocus

 

[Friday]

I rather doubt you’re going to find a neat nice bow to tie this all up in.... instead it sounds to me like you’ve got several pieces in play all contributing / likely feeding off of each other.

I am suspecting maybe I am co-dependent person who over cares, over-solves, over-thinks,

This is probably worth looking into.

I am finding myself, every time there is a meeting, I am offering solutions that no one asks for it. Some are even above my pay-grade ...

This can often be control issues + trust issues.

Not trusting others to identify problems, or IF they do (big if) to come up with the “correct” solutions.

My niceness is piercing at me and I feel I am conditioned now not acting spontaneously.

Is it actually being nice, though? May be, or some may be, but sacrifice isn’t usually “nice”. Making a sacrifice for someone is a muuuuuuuch bigger deal, than simply being nice.

I’d look into both fawning, since you talk about it being conditioned, and martyrdom (which often plays into control issues... “The tyrant dies and his rule is over, the martyr dies and his rule begins.” -Søren Kierkegaard, the sense that if you’re suffering for this person? One actually has more power over them, because of the debt... the more you suffer, the deeper the debt, the more they owe you, the more power you have over them... kind of thing).

Codependency, control issues, trust issues, fawning, martyrdom/manipulation issues are all super common side effects of abuse. Very much tied into attempting to anticipate abusers needs/wishes/demands/moods/problems before they happen to keep them happy. Patterns of behavior built up over long periods of time, reinforced both in trauma (big bad bada boom if you get it “wrong”) and out in the real world (praise and reward for getting it “right”)

 

[grit]

Wow! @Friday Not mean to "fawn" but I think you sort of hit a dent on the dam! I thank you from the bottom of my heart.

I rather doubt you’re going to find a neat nice bow to tie this all up in...

I think this is true and why I feel the weight of depression...it is not one thing but a cluster. I have to sit on this and dissect.

Not trusting others to identify problems, or IF they do (big if) to come up with the “correct” solutions.

The way you take on this one has poked another feeling on me. I am looking for a need to be needed, to feel important to feel liked! it is sickening to me but it is part of identity I have/had as a child must say something clever to be noticed! thank you for breaking it down.

I’d look into both fawning, since you talk about it being conditioned, and martyrdom (which often plays into control issues... “The tyrant dies and his rule is over, the martyr dies and his rule begins.” -Søren Kierkegaard, the sense that if you’re suffering for this person? One actually has more power over them, because of the debt... the more you suffer, the deeper the debt, the more they owe you, the more power you have over them... kind of thing). There was another person somewhere on this site who asked who am I if my self died or what was I before trauma? Something like that and I feel this relates to that. If I do not have my mother to preen for, what am I? maybe this is I am coming to face who am I if I am not always dancing for the ruler. or living the guilt that I took something from my mother so I have to suffer for her (from my child eyes). I am separating from the grip of the trauma here but do not know what will happen if I stop doing this ---whatever I have been doing all my life - the debt the martyrdom....I am exhausted thinking about this...the exhaustion! I am crippled by the abuse of 18 yrs that I buried. I am crippled and unless I wake up, it is literally I am carrying an albatross on my neck.

Codependency, control issues, trust issues, fawning, martyrdom/manipulation issues are all super common side effects of abuse. Very much tied into attempting to anticipate abusers needs/wishes/demands/moods/problems before they happen to keep them happy. Patterns of behavior built up over long periods of time, reinforced both in trauma (big bad bada boom if you get it “wrong”) and out in the real world (praise and reward for getting it “right”)

the best word here is the anticipation of abuse....people say often get over it but getting over it means I have to fill it with something else or at least see what is that I am getting over! you comment literally punched the wall on this area for me. I am breathing finally and my stomach is open. the comment about manipulation is interesting. I have to say it is true for me to build it up a bit and for being nice as manipulation...I need to be more aware of this. I can see and smell it intellectually but I need to catch myself acting out and will pay attention more.

It is so exhausting to learn all one should learn as a child as an adult in full consciousness and still keep living....but I am glad i am here and open to hear.

Thank you so much. I may have to come back as I digest and dissect and become a bit more aware. Super appreciated your amazing response.

 

[Friday]

It is so exhausting to learn all one should learn as a child as an adult i

If it helps at all? These are all common side effects of adults in abusive relationships, too.

The reason abuse “works” is that it’s not insanely different from normal human behavior. It’s completely normal and natural to anticipate someone else’s needs/wants/desires (to make them happy, to function better as a team, cast oil on troubled waters, etc.). That happens inside of pretty much every healthy relationship, ever. As does forgiving someone a hard day, or giving them a bit of leeway for this situation or that circumstance, etc. That interconnected interplay is simply part of being in a relationship with someone. Professional, personal, romantic, etc.

Where abuse warps things is that it takes that perfectly normal/healthy connection and ups it. Both the consequence/reward (abusive relationships tend to be intense, both good & bad parts x10) AND the level of responsibility. Instead of each person being responsible for themselves? It becomes the other person’s responsibility to provide the emotional baseline for the other. (This is part of where the codep springs from). It’s the victims “responsibility” to keep their abuser happy and any unhappiness is their “fault”, meanwhile the abuser dictates how their partner/child/etc. is “allowed” to feel. Not happy enough? KaPow! Too happy? KaPow! Goal 1 - keep abuser happy, Goal 2 be what they want you to be.

With adults with no abuse history? You generally have to ease them into this dynamic. Building off of the normal/healthy expressions, pushing boundaries, until this becomes their normal. With kids, it’s their normal from Day 1. (Or of later in childhood, they can’t leave, so must adapt... but that tends towards other side effects than if an adult is eased into it or it’s all a child has ever known).

Clearly, it’s more complicated, the above is just picking one normal facet of love/life/relationships and how it warps In abuse, and there are dozens. But as you’ve lived it, you know that.

The main point being... that none of these things that progress into the harmful or pathological? Start off that way. Whether you’re talking about anticipating someone else’s needs/wants/desires, or problem solving, or any of it. There’s a tooooooootally healthy / lovely / beneficial range below the warped levels abuse pushes things into. It’s not that any of them are inherently wrong. All of those things on the short list above? (Codep, control issues, trust issues, fawning, martyrdom, manipulation) can just as easily be character assets, rather than serious problems, once they’re moved out of the abuse range and into the normal range. Then? They become things like teamwork & confidence & empathy & well thought out / skilled negotiations, etc. Things “just” have to be moved back a step. Which is harder than swinging to the polar opposite (from fawning into domineering, enmeshed to cold uncaring and distant, etc.)

 

[AngelKeeperJ]

@grit
I don't have the words right now to express just how well you have described what is going on inside me, too. I wI'll try. Excuse me if I make any assumptions or insult you in some way?

I met one of my dearest friends on an internet forum. She actually didn't like me at first because I was too nice. Over time, after many hours of phone conversations she was like my little sister. I even got to visit her a few times. She was my hero, having survived more than I can even fathom. She taught me it was ok to get angry, and to fight, even when I didn't want to fight anymore. The first time she heard me get angry, she congratulated me. I learned that for me, my unexpressed anger turns inward and becomes depression.

I think I use being nice to manipulate. Not always, but it's worth thinking about. I've never considered this a possibility or knew it even existed.

I'm telling you this to say that you are NOT alone with what you are feeling. I'm with you as a "recovering" codependent who has let some old baggage and behaviors creep up on me. I thought I had everything under control. I have found that I do NOT, AT ALL...but have been living in denial which was too comfortable. I've gotten lazy with my self care skills and coping tools.

I think this is true and why I feel the weight of depression...it is not one thing but a cluster. I have to sit on this and dissect.


It is so exhausting to learn all one should learn as a child as an adult in full consciousness and still keep living....but I am glad i am here and open to hear..

Wow! This is SO PROFOUND and RIGHT ON in my own life.

THANK YOU from the bottom of MY heart!! You have helped me "see" some things in my head and helped me put some feelings in a more specific "order", if that makes sense?

(((Hugs))) and ? as you journey towards healing? You have INFINITE BEAUTY in that soul of yours! I've read it in your words here on the forum.

 

[grit]

@AngelkeeperJ I do not take offence in this site about my threads because honestly, I need you more than you need me at this point so your comments are valuable to me and I take them if they resonate which they did and if they do not, I consider it extra mix of chemicals, after all we are humans. I hope that friend is @Friday ...(-;
I forgot to mention about the manipulation, I feel I may have been somewhat conscious of this especially at work and it was our secret with my mother most of my adulthood, it is an area that pains me deeply. I may have reached its end though now. working on it.
Thank you for giving me some feedback.

 

[grit]

This quote touched so many layers.

The reason abuse “works” is that it’s not insanely different from normal human behavior. It’s completely normal and natural to anticipate someone else’s needs/wants/desires (to make them happy, to function better as a team, cast oil on troubled waters, etc.). That happens inside of pretty much every healthy relationship, ever. As does forgiving someone a hard day, or giving them a bit of leeway for this situation or that circumstance, etc. That interconnected interplay is simply part of being in a relationship with someone. Professional, personal, romantic, etc.

I want to understand and will try to break it down for my baby minds.
My internal, template, childhood learning about love and relationship is like bicylce - never graduated to driving a car...to much trauma.
a marriage is like driving an airplane. So if I know how to ride a bicycle (three wheeler) and now I am sitting on cockpit, quite a challenge I would say.
If, I did not have 18yrs of overt abuse and 22 years of covert abuse with my mother and was not busy in surviving rather than learning and growing and learning how to fly a plane, how would I act today? having empathy for my sick MIL and empathy for my husband for whatever reasons of his inability to feel scared or empathy that his mom is sick and may die, I took it as on me, carry it for both us but it reminded me all the time I managed my mother's pain and anger and even sacrifice myself as her lamp so she did not have to feel all those things and took them as an infant, a child, a young woman, a middle age woman.
Ultimately, thanks to Friday's amazing articulation and understanding, I confused my internal parts pain to the reality of normal taking of care my husband because he is too scared to think his mom may die. The feeling rubbed the same place I got hurt and traumatized and I blend both and got lost and got into deep end of fog and sadness.
I was in codependent with my mother for 40+ years. I was diagnosed 3 years after I broke up with her. If I was diagnosed while with her, I would have think wow therapists really break up families. I was that much brainwashed. I am just crawling out of that and maybe having a marriage that requires I use the same system is too much but yet it is precisely this reminder and touching the wound over and over that I feel heals. I am already extracting the past from the present and waking up to the reality. I am strong to carry the feeling for my mother in law because I love her and if her son is not feeling fear, scared or unable to process what may happen, that is his journey and I will be there for him too. But that does not mean, I need to forget about me.
I need to be super conscious I am not disappearing to others as I did to my mother and lost all my soul. Literally and figuratively.
This when I know humanity works. when a person you never met understands you and even digests the pain and feeds right back a me. Thanks @Friday I appreciated this immensely.

 

[grit]

I went to bed a bit early last night to recover from a long day of rumination and fear about losing my sanity to the black hole. I woke up much refreshed and do not want to take it for granted but want to acknowledge. I am more cleared mind and body and in connection. Language truly fails to express certain things so I drew this morning to process my feelings. I had a cartoon with two heads as a child. One is my head and the other is my mother. If a mother teaches a child how to be, my mother taught me how not to be me and be like her - a mirror to herself to feel good, to feel innocent, to look probably cute, and to lift her spirits. As I grew and my head got a bit bigger in the cartoon and hers should shrink like any other good mother. My mother's head on the cartoon got bigger and mine shrunk. She successfully arranged a hostile take over of my mind and left my body to carry the trauma. As I get older and physically stronger, she beat the shit out of me to remain in submission. the fear in my head was now in my environment and the violence just about shut any imagination down to even see what else was out there. I become one body with two heads. My small head that repeats whatever my bigger mother head says. I am difficult, I am bad. I have temper. I am ugly. I am stupid. who would ever love me I am so horrible and disgusting, all her friends' daughters are so much better than me. I am no one. the next day, I am smart. I am her favourite. I am better than few people my mother hated. I believed and I glow and I have a warm feeling that I am a good person who loves her mother even if she is not perfect. No one is perfect. she had a rough life worse than me. She is lonely. I love my mother. the cycle goes on and on. And I fell into that deep co-dependency (of living breathing believing) for 42yrs. Until death in my family that shook me to my core and showed me like a day who I am and who is my mother. a glimpse of reality. and I broke off with my mother and life has been a struggle of how do I cut off that extra head of hers inside of my head without cutting my own head. how do i not confuse every love event or experience with what happened? How do I not mix what was then and what is now? I know who I am. I am the seeker, the one who knows that side who wants me dead, who thinks I am stupid is the left over of my mother, her memory and her teachings so I am still here hearing her and that is a good thing.
It is a good day. I am clear about the two heads. There is no trauma for me without co-dependency with my mother. She took over me and I am trying to free myself. I am lucky I woke up before I was 100% devoured. It took a childhood imagination to save the day....that even though I was living under the rupture, I knew there is a galaxy far away where people had one head and were free.
I am there now but still dream about when I was being engulfed, eaten and was unable to say no or even acknowledge. the memory is implicit in my body.
{edit}I want to add in a weird way, my husband also feels he is in co-dependent with his mother and was going through similar processing as me. It was really weird. It is weird how connected we are as humans and yet separate.

Thank you all for your help. I truly felt your compassion and love, yesterday. It is what I imagined as a child and you proved it exists today.

 

[Justmehere]

Trauma survivors who are caught up in caregiving. compulsive advice giving, and possible co-dependency sometimes are struggling with boundaries. Learning what is theirs to take on and what isn’t. You were invaded and engulfed as a kid. Now, you get to declare space and do be your own person and not immerse yourself into everyone else’s problems. In al-anon, where co-dependency is common, they about giving others the dignity of making their own choices and making their own mistakes. It’s a way to reframe the challenge of letting go into something positive. Life isn’t just a problem to be solved but a journey to be lived. I hope you find some peace and rest today for your weary heart.

 

[grit]

Trauma survivors who are caught up in caregiving. compulsive advice giving, and possible co-dependency sometimes are struggling with boundaries. Learning what is theirs to take on and what isn’t. You were invaded and engulfed as a kid. Now, you get to declare space and do be your own person and not immerse yourself into everyone else’s problems. In al-anon, where co-dependency is common, they about giving others the dignity of making their own choices and making their own mistakes. It’s a way to reframe the challenge of letting go into something positive. Life isn’t just a problem to be solved but a journey to be lived. I hope you find some peace and rest today for your weary heart.

Thanks @Justmehere I feel your words.

 

[The Albatross]

Pick and commit to your priorities for a medium to long range commitment. Parse them down and choose and narrow your focus.