Intrusive or justified advice about parenting?

[PreciousChild]

I think that's a good point, @grit. My bf was telling me about what his ex did for him once that was really sweet. And I was like, that's so nice. But there was also a part of me that was jealous, and I do know that I am inclined to diminish her just because she is my bf's ex. I have to be careful.

@Mytime, you give good, sensible advice. I think you're right that I should limit my feedback to what he can do. I don't think either of them have been very mindful about their parenting philosophy, so he's kind of an open book. Also, when your child's in crisis, you get pretty desperate, so I'm not going to say he's only seeking my advice because of my wisdom. He's really worried.

I can totally understand that from what I've said, it might appear that he's pawning off his role to his ex and myself, but let me clarify because he is so amazingly conscientious and unafraid to get dirty. After working for very, very long hours during the week, he devoted much of this weekend to talking with his son, trying to figure out what happened, trying to tease out his reasons, etc. for hours. There were tears, lots of discussion, and then he went out of his way to make the weekend about his son - planned a day trip and then worked all day today to build something that his son has been asking for. It's not for the lack of trying. It's just that his shoot from the hip methods, as well as his ex's, hasn't worked and he was looking for something different.

But the funny thing is, we're right back to where we started. His son claimed that he has no idea why the administration is mad at him, and my bf thinks the administration is too hard on him anyway. I believe that his son is so used to deflecting responsibility, he's unable to even recognize it. For example, when my bf asked him to look into himself and figure out what his contribution might be (I think he did this because of something I said), his son cried and said that the administration didn't tell him what he did wrong and that his teachers didn't tell him what was inappropriate. My question was, but surely your son must know what he did and why. I think it's curious that his son deflects from the question about his actions to pointing the finger at his teachers. It sounds to me too much like my ex who always points the finger at someone else, but he can never admit wrong-doing. But if that's the case, then what? His son is saying that he doesn't really know what he did wrong despite 4 or 5 children telling on him and also saying he threatened them if they told the teachers. His son said he was just joking and that his friends knew that and the teachers over heard and just overreacted as they always do.

I don't know. I'm pretty frustrated, but all I can do is support my ex in his belief that his son is not doing anything really that bad.

 

[scout86]

His son claimed that he has no idea why the administration is mad at him,

I don't think that's all that uncommon for a kid. You don't have to be a psychopath to learn how to play a situation to your own advantage. I can tell you I couldn't have pulled that off as a kid because my dad would have known what happened at school before he ever brought it up with me. In case no one's thought of it yet, it's pretty common for kids whose parents are separated to learn how to play one parent against the other too. Doesn't make them evil, just makes them human. If the technique works, it's only sensible to use it and keep using it. It's just that that isn't the kind of person you normally want to raise, so it's better they learn it doesn't work early on.

I believe that his son is so used to deflecting responsibility, he's unable to even recognize it.

One of the ways a kid learns this is that it's what they see at home. One of the ways you learn to take responsibility for your misdeeds is to see the grown ups in your life doing it. But, consider what he sees happen next when someone takes responsibility for their actions too. Kids pick up on all of that.

 

[PreciousChild]

Thanks, @scout86. I think you're right that kids of divorce play their parents off of each other, but that hasn't been the major problem in this case. But that he's trying to avoid getting in trouble being normal, I agree with that. But I wonder if it has the chance to become pathological. Last year alone, my bf and his ex went into the school 6 or more times because of behavior issues. The central conclusion they always draw despite punishments, etc is that the school administration sucks and don't know what they're doing. That is echoed in his son a lot - when he talks to his dad, he knows he will get a friendly ear if he bashes the adminstrators. But this weekend, my bf asked him about his responsibility, and that's when he cried and said the admins weren't specific enough about what he did.

His son is also prone to grandiose claims - he's never just good, but always the "best" at whatever he is talking about. He also claimed that he was getting sponsorship for his surfing despite only just starting. He also claims to be very popular, the most popular, despite almost never having plans on the weekends (other parents in the school thinks he's "bad"). Btw, at just 13 years old, he's on a diet that he sticks to quite meticulously, often notes things that are off about his appearance (for example, he is worried about seeing his veins in his arms which were very faint), and is super materialistic.

My bf tells me his mom, rather than help him develop a grounded self-esteem based on action and accomplishments, vascillates between calling him being AMAZING and then gets mad and yells and tell him how awful he is. I feel strongly that the son has shame-based pride identifications, and may be unable to admit wrong-doing because it would lead him down a spiral shame. He can't just say, 'my bad. sorry" and then move on.

 

[scout86]

All of that sounds problematic. It also sounds like they don't have a plan to change anything, which seems like even more of a problem. They might want to get the kid evaluated by a competent professional. Here's the thing about that though, it won't matter if they don't listen to the "expert", even they are told some things they don't especially like.

I'm not saying that's going to happen. I don't know. This just sounds like a situation where the adults are going to keep throwing around blame and making excuses indefinitely. None of that solves anything. To solve a problem, you generally have to start by accurately identifying it, then you change something to make things better. At the moment, the parents don't seem inclined to do either those things. So the situation is likely to continue and get worse.

 

[Mytime]

It must be very hard to sit back and watch. Have you mention to your bf about coparenting classes or family counselling? The parents learning to come together for the sake of their son is hard work. But
the child deserved that much. It’s very hard when you have one parent who is doing most of the parenting. Because that parent is more of the enforcer. The one who makes all the decisions and consequences. You can understand where that parent starts to resent the other because they feel like their seen as the bad guy all the time and they don’t get to have the fun time with the child. Then you have the other parent who feels like they have no say In the important decision making because their seen as the parent who only gets the fun time with no responsibility’s and that parent has resentment too. Most courts don’t grant that kind of argument just for that reason. I hope the parents can learn to come together in a better way and work together to their son.

 

[PreciousChild]

All of that sounds problematic. It also sounds like they don't have a plan to change anything, which seems like even more of a problem. They might want to get the kid evaluated by a competent professional. Here's the thing about that though, it won't matter if they don't listen to the "expert", even they are told some things they don't especially like.

To solve a problem, you generally have to start by accurately identifying it, then you change something to make things better. At the moment, the parents don't seem inclined to do either those things. So the situation is likely to continue and get worse.

Yes, @scout86, those are exactly it. Thanks for putting that into words because they express my concerns. I'm glad it's not just me that sees these behaviors as a problem. I think that the parents have truly talked themselves into believing that if only the administration and other kids were less sensitive and could accommodate their son more, everything would be fine. He does have adhd as my son does, so I'm sympathetic and do think that needs some accommodation, but even folks with adhd have to learn how to navigate a world, and learn to compromise, think of others, and respect authority figures. But after talking to his son my bf, who is quite sweet, just takes his son at face value and his son is saying that he would admit it if he did something wrong, but he just can't remember what he did. But he can remember details when they serve him.

His school is recommending an evaluation just like you suggest. But my bf thinks that his son does not have a learning disability per se. His ex does want the evaluation, but interestingly, she's not interested in getting therapy for him. I speculate that she wants an evaluation to say what's "wrong" with him so she can persist in off-loading her part. But she doesn't want him to identify the true problem, which might implicate her.

Yes, @Mytime, it is frustrating. I was thinking today about my own feelings surrounding this situation because it's been challenging. I have my own triggers linked to this in many ways. Plus, after talking to my bf, I was questioning my own interpretation and even started to feel guilty and ashamed for importing negativity and criticism towards his son instead of accepting his explanation that it's the admin's fault. After all, for the last three years, they've been targeting him because they've labeled him "bad" (which probably has happened to some extent). But I've come to the conclusion that giving the parents a third perspective is still best. I could be wrong. I could be judging his son unfairly. And even if I'm right, there's no point to sharing my thoughts if it falls on deaf years. So I'm just going to play a supportive role and interject when I think it's appropriate and will be heard.

 

[scout86]

But my bf thinks that his son does not have a learning disability per se.

If his son HAS ADHD, then he has a learning disability, of a type. Having a learning disability definitely doesn't mean you're studio stupid. And, you're right, part of his education should be learning to deal with it.

I was a step parent to three great kids. The youngest had a learning disability and his school preferred to ignore it (he wasn't disruptive in class). His parents weren't as concerned as I was, and that was frustrating. He grew up to be a successful young man, with a great family of his own, in spite everyone. LOL So, this doesn't have to have a bad ending. He never had a huge tendency to blame the rest of the world for all problems though, and that's the part this that bothers me the most. I hope you're in a position to encourage them to start with an evaluation and follow up on it.

 

[Mytime]

All 3 of my children have ADHD and with the right support and taking the time to figure out how they learn, they have all done well in school. I understand as a parent it can be hard excepting your child has a learning disability. But avoidance doesn’t change it. I
raised my children, that they don’t have a disability. The school system is very black and white.
They are full of colour , creative and be proud of that. They can do and be what ever they want in life. They’ll just do it in a different way.
It probably helped that I understand their struggles, because I’m ADHD. The difference is I was shamed for my struggles.
I’m glad he has you who is willing to be open and supportive. Even though you don’t have any say in how he’s raised. At less he has someone who is trying to help him.

 

[Muttly]

I don't have a lot to add to what the others have said except I wanted to add that he could have a learning disability and getting him evaluated would be a great idea. I am not sure how you are defining the term "pathological" in this case, but I'd be a bit leery of applying it to a 13 year old.

 

[ms spock]

How old is this kid?

My bf will call me if he gets a call from school, upset that his son's in trouble again. So he does ask for feedback, but mostly about what is a "fair" punishment. But I want to nudge him to see that maybe his kid isn't so "bad" and that maybe he's just reacting to her parenting. I should probably just mind my own business.

Saying you are doing a really good job in a difficult situation could you possibly see someone to assist? Maybe nudge him to get some counseling in order to manage the situation? An independent 3rd party is always the one to deliver any advice on parenting and not you as it will just come back to you being the problem.

 

[PreciousChild]

Thanks for your thoughts. @scout86, it looks like you've been there, so I really appreciate your perspective. It's a challenging situation to be in. @Mytime, sounds like you're an awesome parent. I think that in the case of my bf's ex, she has a lot of shame in her past, but she compensated by praising her son to the nines, but would then get mad at berate him and go back and forth between the two, which I think was bad. @Muttly and @blackemerald1, I think you're both right and others have said the same thing.

I got an update today: my bf's school has told them that if they don't want their son to be expelled, they have to put him in therapy. My bf is going to do that. I also found out that his son lies frequently about big and little stuff. He chalked it up to "kids lie". I don't know any kid, especially a 13 year old that lies all the time, especially about inconsequential stuff. I think he's been in a lot of denial. The situation is so concerning. Honestly, I do find fault with his ex. I'm sorry - I'm trying not to be 'that girlfriend', but don't you have to call a spade a spade?

 

[scout86]

my bf's school has told them that if they don't want their son to be expelled, they have to put him in therapy.

I'm sort of mentally high fiving the school for insisting. Now I hope they find a good T and the parents listen (both of them).

There doesn't have to be a bad guy in this situation. It doesn't have to be about "fault". Usually, people are doing the best they know how, that just might not've very good. It should be about helping the kid, whatever is going on.

My T works with a lot of kids and their families. I think he prefers kids, really. He says the kids are usually easy, it's the parents who are hard. A lot of them drop the kid off and more or less say "fix him/her". That's not the way it actually works, you know? It's generally the whole family system that needs work.